Podcast: Unlocking the Power of Cannabis to Improve Lives Feat. Papa & Barkley Execs Adam Grossman and Guy Rocourt

Greeting from John Wiesehan III: Welcome to the Live Well. Be Well. Podcast. Our goal is to address the trials and triumphs of daily life and always being better in all aspects of your life, by looking forward to new challenges but by being present today, we hope you get inspiration to live better, be better, and learn small habits that you can incorporate into your daily life to accomplish your goals.

Let’s get started.

John: All right, hey, everybody, thanks. Welcome back to the Live Well Be Well podcast. My name is John Wiesehan III, CEO of Direct CBD Online. Today I have the distinct pleasure of bringing Guy {pro: GHEE} and Adam from Papa & Barkley essentials, they are a premium brand that we offer on our platform.

We do lot of really cool things with their people. We deal with Kati, Katie is great, but you know, if you guys don’t mind, you know, first of all, I want to tell our listeners, we are doing this in the midst of COVID, COVID-19. It is, is October of 2020. For those of you listening three years from now, and we are doing this via zoom.

So if there’s some technical delays, just bear with us, they will be worked through. And, hopefully, you guys learned a lot about Papa & Barkley and you can always, of course, find their brand on directcbdonline.com. I’ll start with Adam. Adam, why don’t you give us a little bit of background on yourself, and kind of the steps you took when you first launched the brand back in, I believe 2015, if I’m not mistaken. And tell us kind of how the brand came about and how you started, first and foremost.

Adam: First of all, thanks for having us on today, John. It’s great to be here.

John: Of course.

Homemade cannabis that heals: The origin of Papa & Barkley

Adam: Well, my background is entrepreneurial, and so I’ve started up a few different businesses and focused on the operations side of things. And, so back in 2014 really started looking at the cannabis business with my longtime business partner and another friend that was interested in this space, around, you know, investing in early-stage companies and doing what I had done throughout my career. Sort of put in a small amount in capital and operating expertise to help early-stage companies grow.

And so he was having those conversations, but at the same time was traveling back and forth to Boston from New York where I was living, and having those conversations, to help take care of my parents who are living in the house that I grew up in, in Boston, outside of Boston. And, so it was a personal experience that really caused the company to form.

And so what happened was my parents were elderly and needed help. My mom had Alzheimer’s and then my dad developed a back condition that left him in terrible pain and bedridden and couldn’t get them help. I didn’t know what to do, I put him in the hospital. And he just got worse. He got put on hospice and none of the medications were working.

And, so, when we called in the pain specialist, they said if he didn’t get out of bed in the next week or 10 days that you probably wouldn’t. And so I was desperate. And I got a call from a friend in California who had been in the dispensary. He was talking about the balms that you saw in the dispensary and that’s what the suggestion was; I went on YouTube that night.

I looked at formulas for, just recipes, old school recipes, to make a pain balm.

And I called up a high school friend and got a couple of ounces of the best weed I could get and borrowed a Crock-Pot from the neighbor and synthesized a couple of the YouTube videos to make my own formula.

John: That’s that’s pretty good. It’s funny when you’re under pressure, what you can do, right?

Adam: Yeah, exactly.

And so I mixed up my first batch of this pain balm, which I then melted in the beeswax and the other ingredients and put it on my father’s back — and I could get him out of bed.

John: Wow.

Adam: So he bonded to it, amazingly. And, so, I just kept applying it, you know, over time.

He, long story short, he got better. He actually got off hospice and lived almost another two years.

John: Wow. That’s incredible.

How Adam and Guy got connected

Adam: It was an incredibly empowering experience for the two of us and it really opened my eyes to the incredible medicinal potential of cannabis. And so started giving away samples of the balms to friends and family. That influenced sort of the way we were looking at the market, and like your topicals’ companies and the potential there.

And then my path, through a guy that I hired to help with some branding, I met Guy, and so with his background, he was sort of the perfect partner to form the business with. Because his background is, you’ll hear from him, is as what I would call “an artist with a plant.”

So he’s an expert grower and extractor of oils. And then he had helped a business launch in Colorado back in 2014. And he navigated the regulatory environment and built their manufacturing facility, and so he had sort of the perfect skillset and pulled it together.

We merged what was happening in New York with, you know, what we want to do in California, and created this operating platform and launched with the balm, our first product in June of 2016.

John: Which is your number one product still I’m sure, right?

Adam: It is. That’s our hero product. And I think, yeah, certainly, one of our best sellers, if not till the end. And yeah, we launched the business out of a house that Guy had with the grow in the basement, that we, you know, was our source of biomass and then had Guy’s lab off the kitchen and 20 crock pots in the house, the first launch.

So yeah, we, we launched in June of 2016. And, with the balms, our first product, by the end of the summer we also had patches in market and, you know, kind of have been doing our thing ever since.

John: That’s great. That’s awesome. So, thank you for that backstory. We’re going to dig more into that here in just a minute. But, Guy, tell me a little bit about your background. We learned a little bit about how you guys met, right? But before that, were you always kind of in this cultivation world? So tell us a little bit about yourself.

Getting to know Guy, “the artist with a plant” and expert grower, cultivator, and extractor

Guy: Yeah, so, uh, my name is Guy Rocourt, and, pronounced “GHEE,” my parents are Haitian, so I’m a first-generation immigrant — I’m first-generation American. My parents were immigrants from Haiti.

Look, yeah, I started in cannabis. I was in entertainment, you know, always kind of like had cannabis in my life, but you know, just recreationally. It wasn’t until I met Montel Williams, the talk show host on a movie I was in filmmaking at the time, and he was doing a movie and he had MS.

And he was using cannabis and I started to see it from the medical guys. We started advocating together. Eventually, I came out to California. You know, 1999, 1998, and of course saw what was going on here with the first medical proposition, starting to get involved more from the advocacy way. And then by like 2000, 2001, I started a small grow.

And I like to say the two lights became four lights, became eight lights — and before you know it, it was a thing. And, you know, I thought that the people had spoken. In any year, any day it would happen [legality]. And it wasn’t until, as Adam said, 2011, 2012, that, you know, I got a call from some folks. They wanted to put something together and I was like, well, California, I’m frustrated.

It’s been over a decade and nothing has happened. And we can’t seem to get legislation to move, even though the will of the people is here at this point. There’s hundreds, not thousands of dispensaries in California, yet there’s no legislation, but these great things are happening in Colorado. So I did get the opportunity to partner with some folks, raise the money, go out to Colorado and started up a vape pen business.

So now I’m formally extracting, we’re doing light hydrocarbon extraction. You know, we’re living the dream of legal cannabis at that point.

John: So real quick on that point, back, cause I remember walking some grow farms, indoor grow farms and things in California, back in those days when vape was really kind of up and coming.

Those were the days where you would walk an indoor grow farm in a warehouse and there were 25, 10 foot tall, safes lining a wall full of cash, right? Cause you couldn’t bank anywhere. So–

The risks and rewards of the cannabis industry

Guy: –it hasn’t changed by the way. So folks should know that, you know, while we’re, while we’re one of the biggest threats to arguably the nation and definitely folks that are in this business is the amount of cash that is out of circulation because of cannabis.

We’re a real business and we’re not being taken seriously. And one of the results is hundreds, millions of dollars in cash. Our company alone has had to deal with cash. We still have, I don’t know how to say this, a cash problem.

John: That’s a good problem to have, Guy!

Guy: It’s a security risk, right? We live in money.

As you move to ACH, you never really see large amounts of money like that. And whenever there’s large amounts of money, it presents a security risk. And it’s a risk that you shouldn’t have to take. Okay.

So if there was anything, if the feds were listening now, which they are, if they were listening, I would say, please let us bank, like, you know, let’s just bank.

So that at least let’s just take that security risks off the table. We’ll figure out even the taxing part, which is onerous. Just being able to bank and take ACH, having dispensary’s take credit cards instead of knowing that everybody that walks into a dispensary has cash. And therefore the dispensary has cashed all security risks that we don’t need to do.

That being said, you know, getting back to your origin story. When I met Adam I’m in the California Wild Wild West, but I have this combined thing going on in Colorado. And of course, you know, I’m very much into the flowers and the extracts and I see the balm and I’m like, “Oh, that’s awesome.”

We look at some balms in the marketplace.

My first thought is, well, I’m already doing these awesome extracts. Let’s put this extract in it. They’ll be easier to manufacture. Well, immediately on doing that, we realize it’s not the same.

Two things I noticed is: One, the balm that Adam had created, we had sent out for testing — shout out to SC labs, has been in the game forever — we send it out to SC labs. I get back a result, that’s like, wow, this is way more potent than what I’m seeing in dispensaries.

The products in dispensaries is in a way an afterthought. And I started to realize that, wait, these topicals may not be effective because they don’t have enough potency. And that’s why there is no real wellness section in the dispensary.

Secondly when we do it potent, but with just using an extract, it’s not the same. It just really isn’t. Our balm has a pretty quick rapid, like people use it and they’re like, “Oh my God, that’s amazing.” We’re getting that pop. So that’s when we went back to the CrockPots that Adam was talking about.

Our direct lipid infusion is a result of the origin story, but it’s also like a happy scientific thing where we realize, “Oh.” When it comes to topicals and even tinctures having some of that green matter, some of those other things, having the full entourage effect of all the terpenes, all the cannabinoids, by essentially soaking the plant and getting all of that to be infused in the coconut oil, that makes for special topicals–

About Papa & Barkley’s whole-plant formulas

Adam: –that, that crosses all of our product lines. So everything that we do as Guy is mentioning is full-spectrum or whole-plant.

John: Yeah. I was going to go back to the basics for our listeners because there’s broad spectrum out there now, there’s isolate out there and there’s full-spectrum.

Full-spectrum obviously has, in my opinion, the most, I’m not a full spectrum user, but it definitely has the most, most efficacious application to the body, no matter if it’s a balm, a tincture or whatnot, you know, versus broad and isolate, right?

Guy: Yeah. So the way, the way I like to think of it as whole plant literally has green matter in it, right? It’s the whole plant, not necessarily stalks and stems. And we know that there’s not a lot of cannabinoids in the fan leaves, but there is chlorophyll, there are plant fats in that and phytonutrients in that, and for topicals and tinctures, it’s an amazing thing to have in there.

So we really lean into that. So that’s what I call whole plant. You know, full-spectrum I think there are two versions of full-spectrum, and that’s why I think full-spectrum and broad-spectrum. The subtle difference, there is full spectrum that suggests cannabinoids were taken out in one process, like, like, like hydrocarbons, whereas broad-spectrum, I believe is when you recombine the meaning.

You still have everything in there, but you added it, whether it was non-cannabis terpenes or whether those cannabis drippings had to be captured through a cold trap or some other way, depending on your extraction methodology, and you got to reconstitute them so that they look like the plant.

That’s what I would consider a broad spectrum. Then, of course, you have a distillate, which is about 90 to 95% pure, which may have some other stuff. And then isolate is more like 99% pure 98% to a 100% pure, hence isolate single API compound. And as we get closer to the API, it becomes more like pharma and we, while it’s funny, the efficacy part, from a milligram perspective, it’s not there. And those milligrams are unbuffered and we’re still working that out.

It’s so awesome that scientists with bigger heads than mine are starting to get their head around cannabis and how cannabinoids work. Most importantly, how the ECS regulates all these other auto-immune diseases that we know cannabis is great for.

A quick sidebar about delta 8 THC

John: Fascinating. So I’m going to go on a little bit of a tangent real quick. I don’t want to spend too much time on it, but I’m curious. There’s a lot of buzz in the CBD industry right now around delta 8. If I said, what is delta 8, Guy, what is your product definition of that? Is it real? Is it not? Is it here to stay? Is it not? You know, what, what is delta 8?

Guy: So Delta 8 is a minor cannabinoid that is not naturally occurring. I think that’s the best way to understand it. And so when you think about THC, when it comes off of the plant or cannabinoids, when they come off the plant during their acid chain form, they have an extra carbon atom making them CBDA or THCA.

They naturally want to dry and oxidize to CBD or delta 9 THC. Delta 9 THC can be further refined and have another crop carbon molecule pulled off of it and give you THCA or THCV. Some of these awesome new cannabinoids are coming out and they’re awesome, but they do require refining. So for our company, they’re not immediately in a product roadmap because we are choosing not to artificially refine using alcohol in a short-path distillation machine, but they do exist.

And there is evidence with the THCV around weight loss and the THCA around, I guess, a more mellow psychoactive state.

John: Is it, is it synthetic? In nature?

Guy: No, it is naturally derived, it’s just made in the lab. Like there’s no way to find a plant that has a bunch of THCV or THCA, but I don’t want people to get it confused with synthetic cannabinoids. Which have a lot of hair on them. Right?

John: So kind of like isolate?

Guy: Yeah, any isolation process you can tune your, whether you’re using thin weight, I think you’d only do it using short path distillation. You can tune using heat to dry different compounds.

John: Understood, OK. That’s super helpful, thank you. So, again, don’t want to spend too much time on it.

You guys, and Adam, this is a testament of your story. You’re clearly a mission-driven company. Right? And talk to us about your underlying mission and focus and how you make decisions based on driving that mission forward.

Unlocking the power of cannabis to improve people’s lives

Adam: Our mission is to unlock the power of cannabis to improve people’s lives.

You know, we’ve formalized the mission in a few different ways. We run the company based around this management system that is based on a book called “Traction” by Gino Wickman. And in part of the process, which we did at the outset of the business, was an exercise to fully articulate the mission.

The 10-year goal of the company, ours is to be a global brand recognized as best in class, and then for what our core values are. And we have those up here in Eureka where all of our production and manufacturing takes place and where we source all of our sun-grown cannabis from the farmers in Humboldt County.

But, yeah, so up on the wall in Eureka at our manufacturing facility are our core values. And so, you know, it’s sort of part of the way we’re structured as a company is that we, you know, we’re members of the community here and because of our value proposition, which sort of the core of which starts with non-psychoactive pain products.

It’s kind of hard to argue with a pain balm that helps your grandma when it can. And so we feel really privileged to kind of inhabit that position in the marketplace and what we’re known for at our core, we make other wonderful products, but that’s really what we’re known for.

And so. You know, we’re able to sort of have that first conversation, um, in terms of the values and how that reflects like, quality first is our initial. And I think that’s reflected in the number of cannabinoids we were talking about earlier, like the potency that you need for the topicals. And the reason why we have such a commanding position in the topicals market, I think is, it’s been great marketing because our products really work better.

John: It works, right. Exactly.

Adam: Exactly. Like question that we’ve been talking about, which is, it’s plant medicine. So we’re just trying to take the best flowers that are grown sustainably in the hills and the amazingly beautiful Humboldt County. And then process without any chemicals or solvents preserving the full chemical profile, all of the plant fats, phytonutrients, over 100 cannabinoids, and then have a potent clean product that we’d want to put on or in our own bodies.

And so that’s really where we came from. And I think that, you know, when you look at the products that we make, all of them share that profile about chemical-free processes, full-spectrum, sort of, you know, respecting the plant from the earth from the time and in the way that it’s grown all the way through where we process it, and then putting out the best quality products that we can.

Appreciating Eureka, CA, and the brand’s responsibility to the industry at large

John: No, that’s great. Okay. So how does that mission tie into Eureka, California? And how did you get involved in Eureka? It sounds like it’s a pretty important part of your company and the culture in general. Well, how does the mission tie into Eureka and how did Eureka come about?

Adam: Well, I’ll take the front half and then I’ll hand it back to Guy because he’ll want to give color. But, you know, we ended up in Eureka because originally, I mean, I came here before any of the cannabis stuff was happening, ‘cause my favorite cousin moved up here.

And so I came up when she got married and had her kids. And through that relationship, we had some initial contacts up here in Eureka, sort of because my family here are members of the community and had a great reputation. And we came in with our mission. And you know, it’s, it’s about the — my father’s pictures on the box.

And we’re trying to be an example of what a cannabis company can be. And after all the years of advocacy that he can speak to from, you know, the epicenter of cannabis culture, right?

Eureka is the county seat of Humboldt County and Humboldt County is, you know, this is the heart of it all. So we view that with respect and as members of that community. And so we’ve tried to reflect that in how we do clean ups, you know, we’re one of the largest manufacturing employers, we have good relationships with the city. We give coconut oil to the zoo and we work with the local farmers and–

John: Which that’s awesome.

Adam: Yeah.

John: How many employees do you have up there in Eureka?

Guy: In Eureka right now we’re about 90. I think we’re about 140 total in the state. But most of our manufacturing workforce is here and, you know, yeah, I’d, I’d add some color around Eureka.

When Adam first told me about you know, his cousin, I was like, “Oh, Eureka, you know, it’s amazing.” And even though it was an indoor grower in LA, how sun-grown would come down, especially right now, we’re in harvest season — so what we call the full term would come down and just disrupt the market.

But I was of course, aware of the power of Humboldt and what we call the Emerald Triangle — Mendocino, Trinity, and Humboldt counties — are where arguably most of the cannabis for the nation comes out. And of course we don’t use the word “black market” anymore.

We’d like to use the word traditional market because we appreciate, as you said, as part of our mission is normalizing cannabis, unlocking the power of cannabis to improve people’s lives. So we understand that as we’re coming out of prohibition, normalizing and making this industry whole is part of that. We had to build a shelf that we were putting my products on the triangle.

John: What was that triangle called again? Sorry to interrupt you. The triangle–

Guy: Emerald Triangle.

John: I think that’s really cool for our listeners to know, that’s not something I’ve heard of before. Okay, cool. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry–

Guy: –it’s been a name, a coined name for, you know, as long as I can remember.

And it represents this Pacific Northwest region in California — Mendo, Humboldt, and Trinity — but I should just say with respect to Washington and Oregon, it’s really about that specific Northwest climate here in Humboldt, behind the Redwood curtain extends well into Oregon and even into Washington.

And so they have a similar vibe when it comes to — not so much Washington, Washington’s a little far north — but definitely Southern Oregon has similar farms, similar growing practices, similar cannabis culture. And I think that we were aware of the cannabis culture. So now as cannabis is experiencing this revival, we have a lot of money coming in, but we have a lot of traditional people that have been in it.

And even like what, you know, the vice-presidential candidate said, we have a lot of people still in jail, right? Like there’s, there’s a lot of like weirdness in this industry as we emerge. And so for us, we’ve taken on our shoulders, not just building great products, but also being good community partners to show that great business people like Adam can step into this industry, and also hear, the needs of the traditional market people and help bring this into the light the right way, not throw out some of the traditions and cultures.

Because look, this is our second wave of cannabis legalization. It started in the ‘70s, maybe died in the ‘80s and ‘90s, and now we’re back again. Right? Hopefully in a more permanent way, hopefully in a more data-driven, science way around what this plant can really do.

But it is, there have been a lot of people that have given up literally jail time to make this happen, to continue to advocate by any means necessary. And it’s important for us to honor that a lot of folks come in with money, and they don’t, and they make it seem like, “Oh no, this is just starting.”

It’s not just starting, it’s entering something that was in motion and we’re bringing it into the light.

John: No, that’s great. Okay. So first of all, I want to comment, I love your hat. Can you, is there a story around your hat — now I have to screenshot it because our listeners are gonna want to see it–

Guy: At Grassroots, it’s a California company, but I believe now is in Colorado. It’s very cannabis-centric, you can see, they have the little seed. Yeah, but Grassroots, California. I liked their hats — truth be told I like my hair, but with COVID, I’m a little bit overgrown.

A message to listeners who are new or hesitant toward CBD

John: Well, that’s cool. Okay. So a couple of quick things to close: First of all, I think the intelligence level that you guys are able to bring our listeners to kind of, you know, cannabis, how it ties into CBD, how you guys extract it, where you grow it, your roots, your mission, your mission-driven company, you know, where it all started — I think it’s just really neat. I think people really want to hear about that.

So I appreciate you guys coming on and letting our, our customer, our mutual customers know about it. One thing I would say is, you know, if somebody is saying, “I’m a little apprehensive,” or, you know, slow to try CBD or cannabis or CBD, but primarily CBD, what would you tell them on why they should give it a shot?

Guy: I’ll go first, Adam. So first of all, I want to make sure that the listeners know that our company approaches CBD the same way in what we do in California in that we have some rigorous testing standards around compliant cannabis that are, some of them are fear-based, but we’ve risen to this high level.

And while we’re not required to do that on the national side, we do, we source these awesome flowers, the right flowers, right there, flowers that yes, have less than 0.3% THC, but they’re grown for their resin. They’re not grown for their fiber and t-shirts, they’re grown for the medicine — important distinction.

The feds may just want to lump it all as hemp, but they’re all varietals. We want to source the right varieties. You want to do a solvent. We want to source clean ingredients.

So what I would say to them is cannabis products right now, especially those coming out of California, and what we do on the national side is the cleanest thing you can put in and out on your body bar-none. We’re talking about zero, not detected pesticides, residual solvents, across the board for all the ingredients tested in final form.

There are not a lot of products that can say that in the world that are generally regarded as safe and good, but we’re even higher than that.

Secondly, start with the balm. One of our values is Papa & Barkley enjoys owning the first cannabis conversation. Why? Because we can give you this form. It’s not psychoactive. You can use it and can see and understand that there is a medicinal value to this plant. And now you’re ready to take the next step. So the fear can be mitigated. Because we don’t have to get into the whole psychoactivity or anything.

You can just put it on your hands. And if you have a little arthritis or a little tennis elbow, threw out your back playing golf or whatever, you feel that efficacy, and now you’re like, “Oh wait, there’s something here,” and you can start educating and taking the next step. There’s nothing wrong with going slow and taking your time. The medicine will be there for you.

John: Understood, that’s great. Adam, do you have anything to add to that?

Adam: Yeah. I mean, I think he did a great job and certainly there’s nothing to fear in a, in a topical. And then if it’s the conversations about that threshold, one thing I would point out is that, you know, CBD has been approved by the FDA in a disciplined form for epilepsy and you know, we know a lot about that product, because one of the scientists that ran the clinical trials for the approval of that product is on our scientific advisory board, Orrin Devinsky, he’s a brilliant neurologist. But so, so we’re watching the migration into the mainstream. So I would say just relative to CBD, yeah, it’s now gone through the FDA for that particular indication.

And, but the reason why CBD is exploding is because it’s an amazing medicine and we’re built to receive these molecules. Our philosophy is around preserving the structure of the plant, using real plant medicine to do it. And some of that, most of the other products are just CBD only. So there’s sort of a qualitative question for them to answer if it’s about our products or somebody else’s to try that CBD for the first time.

But I think it’s, it’s, there’s a reason why there’s the immense medicinal potential of CBD, but more broadly, the cannabis plant itself is kind of what drives us every day. And it’s pretty, we feel pretty lucky to be on the precipice where the ridiculous illegality of this plant that has profound medicinal potential.

And we’re right in the, in right in that position where it is becoming decriminalized and legalized, so it can be explored and pushed through. But we’re just at the beginning of that, of that whole wave.

A few fun questions to wrap-up

John: It’s so exciting. It’s very exciting. At the end of every podcast, we ask every guest this question, and if you’ve listened to the podcast, you know what it is, but you know, I’ll, I’ll start with you, Adam.

What is your favorite song? Of all time? So we, I believe personally, I believe that music is a very emotional thing and it has a certain amount of connection for people. And for me, it brings me back to different times in my life, depending on what song I listened to, right? So what, what’s your favorite song or artist?

Adam: Favorite song of all time. And it’s a great question, it’s “That’s the Way of the World,” by Earth, Wind & Fire.

John: Great song.

Adam: And, that, yeah, it has some beautiful sentiment in it. And, I think it’s been really relevant.

John: That’s fantastic. Thank you for sharing. Guy?

Guy: I, um, I’m an extreme music listener. I only go on the fringe. I grew up with punk rock in New York City, so, well, OK. That’ll make it easier. We’ll just keep it simple. I’m just thinking about all the modern bands, but obviously for years and years, and even till today, one of my favorite songs is by The Exploited and it’s called “Youth of Today.”

So, you know, they’re a British punk rock band that is, you know, probably had their last heyday in the late ‘80s when I was still in high school. You know, that music of that era, that song in particularly, you know, has, I’ve always been a little bit against the grain. I served in the military. I had this weird nature of like, I know what I don’t have a problem doing the right thing, and you can be against the grain or be punk rock as it were, but still do the right thing or at least understand that intersection of the right thing and rebellion. And so I think that that is the soundtrack of my life, you know, it all starts at youth, right?

John: Yeah. That’s right. And thank you for your service by the way. And then one last final question, I just looked at my notes, I can not believe I forgot this. And Guy, we’ll start with you this time. If there’s one person in your life, you have not given enough credit to, for your success, who would that be?

Guy: My wife, 100% like, you know, my wife, it’s so funny, we had split up a little bit, you know, as things happen, and we were trying to quantify years and years of being outlaws together. And it dawned on me that it did take a toll. Like it took a toll, even though we were able to raise a family, we have two daughters and everything is great. This fact is, you know, we pay taxes or we tried to pay taxes, but being on the outside of the law to bring cannabis to the forefront for almost two decades — yeah, she is not me. I don’t lose sleep at all. She lost sleep, and there were definitely some times where we had things happen that brought the law closer to our doorstep.

She’s from Canada and not a person of color. I’m a person of color. And with cannabis, the idea that I could get swept away at any time I left the house was — took years off her life. So I don’t think I’ve ever given her enough credit for standing by me and my dream of what, where we are living a dream now that she and I literally only dreamt up and there were many years where it was like, “Why don’t you just get a regular job? Why don’t you just go back to the entertainment industry where we don’t have to worry about these things?”

And I don’t have to, you know, I have my own alarms and an alarm would go off in your grow, but you’re not expecting the police to be there. You got to get on your motorcycle and get to that grow. Hopefully, it’s just a water leak and not somebody breaking in or whatnot.

John: You’re passionate. You care.

Yeah, yeah, you can tell. It’s awesome. Adam, what about you?

Adam: I’m still absorbing Guy’s line of living at the intersection of doing the right thing and rebellion.

John: I call it living comfortably in the gray.

Adam: Guy’s a tough act to follow. So the question is who’s underappreciated?

John: Yeah. It’s who in your life do you not give enough credit to, for your success?

Adam: You know, I think now about my parents a lot now, actually, that they’re gone and my dad’s the inspiration behind the — I wish he, you know, really understood that when in his last year.

John: That’s so cool. And who’s Barkley?

Adam: So Barkley was my dog that, you know, as I was taking care of my dad became my dad’s dog and wouldn’t leave his side. And, you know, sleep in the bed with him under the covers, 75-pound pit bull. So it was kind of the three of us who went through that experience together. And, yeah, so that’s why it’s Papa & Barkley.

John: That’s an awesome legacy you’re able to like, kind of carry on through the company and through the brand so it all, it all kind of ties back together.

So I think it’s awesome guys. Listeners, thank you for joining us today. Guy and Adam, you guys will be able to see, I have all your links and all that kind of stuff on directcbdonline.com under resources, then podcast.

You’ll see the transcript links to your website, bios to you guys — I’m going to definitely put a picture of the hat on there cause I think that’s baller and that’s awesome. So we’re going to do that, and thank you guys for joining us. We’ll talk to you guys next time.

Guy and Adam: Awesome, thanks for having us.

Closing with John: Thank you for listening, you can keep up episodes on iTunes, Google podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also visit directcbdonline.com where you will find all podcasts under our resources section on the main menu bar. You can use coupon code LIVEWELLBEWELL for 25% off of your first order. And remember to always live well and be well, we’ll see you next time.

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